Bristol Community College

Bristol Community College
http://bristolcc.edu/

Chat Transcript

Chat transcript for: April 14, 2008

keepsafe As the President of this College what is your stance on arming the Police Force here?
Jean Absolutely the Campus police should have the right to bear fire arms.
Jenn So they can shoot themselfs in the foot?
PREZ Hi Everyone, We have a somewhat controversial issue as one of our topics today.
PREZ Should we arm our BCC Police?
Jenn I wouldn't trust them if you armed them with feather dusters!
PREZ Imagine (unfortunately) a Virginia Tech type of incident at BCC. Our BCC Police respond immediately and--do what?
Jenn With or without arms, they wouldn't know what to do.
PREZ Hi Jenn, have you had a bad experience with our BCC Police?
Guest Engaging in a shoot out would not help the situation
JEFFREY_YOUNG Officers must first be trained to respond to an Active Shooter Inccident
Jenn They just harass my friends, that's all.
annon I agree with Jeffrey and also question Jenn's negativity towards the BCC police. I have had very good experiences with them.
JEFFREY_YOUNG I have trained all my officers at Alabama State Univeristy to know how to react to that type of incident. Armed response is the only way to neutralize the situation.
Keepsafe If the officers are expected to do enforcement, they should be suitably equipped. Less lethal weapons are a must, but they should be prepared for the worst.
PREZ Jeffrey: Our BCC police are all graduates of the Police Academy which includes weapons training. Of course, they would all have to maintain their "currency" in being able to use weapons.
JEFFREY_YOUNG in an active shooter incident officers cannot contain and wait for a swat team. Swift action is neded to save lives. That was the flaw with the response at Columbine.
PREZ Keepsafe: Thank you. We are not talking ONLY about a sidearm gun.
Guest They would need more than just basic academy training, they would need tactical training
JEFFREY_YOUNG The first officers on the scene will need to form at least a two man team and enter the building.
Jenn Will BCC set up a cemetary for students that they kill by mistake?
JEFFREY_YOUNG Training is needed for the students, Faculty and staff on how to react to a shooting incident.
annon Jenn -- it sounds to me like you have a lot of growing up to do. I personally think that if you can't take the topic seriosly you should logout.
keepsafe Students on this campus will turn to Police in the event someone became violent. Police must be prepared for those who want to disturb the CIVILITY and safety of the campus. Plice are not Aggressors, but the Defenders.
Jenn If you can't take the negative comments, maybe you should do some growing up!
magicmaker It is not fair to attack someone with strong feelings...I believe she is taking the topic seriously.
Jenn Most of the campus cops I've delt with have been decent, then there have been the bad ones...
PREZ Jeffrey: Yes, the "training" for our full BCC community may takle the form of "information sessions" since it is difficult to predeict what exact circumstance we might encounter. The training of our Police, of course, goes without saying. It must occur on a continuous basis.
cc I do not think that campus police should carry guns.
staff i'd feel safer if they did have guns.
Jenn They should have weapons available on campus, but I don't think they chould carry them full time.
PREZ Keepsafe: Thank you for reminding us that this question of arming the Police falls within our larger context of building a climate of civility and non-violence/
Guest Virginia Tech officers were already armed
staff thats an option also jenn. something to think about.
Jenn Since this is such a small campus, they could very easily obtain weapons if they need them.
JEFFREY_YOUNG There are several professional organization that cann come to your site and train your officers. What I did was train 8 of my supervisors as instructors and they then trained the rest of my department.
magicmaker What is the role of personal responsibility in a violent situation? Everyone in every situation, not just on campus, needs to think about what they would do if in an "active shooter" situation. The primary thing to do is get to a safe location.
PREZ Jenn: Thanks for that suggestion. Time MIGHT be a factor in this problem of immediacy. Is it a crucial delay to first go to check out a weapon before resdponding?
vc604 good morning room
tvgirl Type hereDon't the campus police already go through the state police training?
Jenn What about setting up a "refuge area" in each building?
BooBerry Jenn - that might work, but there are times that people might need to stay in the room they are in.
PREZ Hi TVGIRL, yes, our Police officers MUST be graduates of the State Police Academy.
vc604 the campus police offiers receive their training from the state police
tvgirl State Law i belive
tvgirl opps Believe
keepsafe Here are some statistics that might make paople think about this issue a little more. MACLEA which stand for Massachusetts Administration of Campus Law Enforcement Administrators have about 68 members. Out of the 68 members 30 are armed and 38 are unarmed. The trend is that more campuses are starting to arm their departments.
PREZ Keepsafe: Thank you for these statistics. As of now, only ONE of our 15 state Community Colleges have armed Police. But more (like BCC) are considering that option.
tvgirl Umass Amherst has a State Police on campus their are armed
Peace Good morning,
Jenn Yes, it would depend on the situation. I'm talking about having places available for people to stay protected in buildings other than the one under assault.
keepsafe That statistic will change soon. Two Community colleges will most likely be armed in some capacity before the end of 2008.
Peace I fear that if we allow campus police to have guns that it will invite others to carry arms. Are we not connected to the local police department? Would they not respond if we needed help?
vc604 we cant make our decision based on what others are doing. we need to do what is best for bcc, taking into account all the pros/cons.
PREZ Jenn: The point you raise touches on our OVERALL preparedness plan. What to do in certain situations (e.g., lockdown, evacuate, etc.). We are working on enhancing our communications at BCC such as a siren system, public address (internal & external), and cell phone text messaging.
vc604 i am a proponant
vc604 i beleive if you are called a police officer
vc604 you must have all the tools nec to do your job effectively
Jenn I know... But how many staff know what to do TODAY?
PREZ Peace: We have a clear policy that no one except "official" police officers (both on and off duty) can bring a weapon on campus.
Guest Staff would be the first ones to become aware of any situation and they should be trained to react to such situations
PREZ Even if a private citizen has a license to carry arms, s/he cannot bring a weapon on campus.
staff Peace- I don't think we should have to rely on local police.
Ramtel If I am correct after reveiwing the BCC Police Website, all campus police officers are trained through the Massachusetts State Police in a rigorious 16 week full time academy.
vc604 whos to say there aree no arms on campus now. i dont want to place fear on everyone, but you cant say folks arent carrying
Bonnie vc604....I believe the same thing. They should have them or what is the point of having a police officer.
PREZ Ramtel: Yes, you are correct. There is SOME weapons training at the Academy, but our officers would have to go intensive additional weapons traing on a continuous basis in order to carry arms.
Ramtel Look at instances like Columbine High School, Virgina Tech, Northearn Illinois University, all of the "Active Shooter" Scenarios they only alst 2 minutes, by the time local officials are called (FRPD) the situation would be over and statiscally speaking people would be deceased
magicmaker In England police officers do not carry weapons. They have a lower violent crime rate than we don.
keepsafe It's all about training. The Police here want to make sure everyone feels safe. If you put limiatations on thier ability to protect then everyone must understand what is expected from them. They want to protect but htye must have the resources to do so.
magicmaker don't carry guns, that is.
Bonnie Magic...we are not in England, it's not our reality
PJ What do you feel about tazer guns?
vc604 We have armed police officers at our middle scholls/high schools
magicmaker But it is like the old cold war. If one country armed itself, others got arms because they felt "safer." It accelerates arming, instead of solving problems. The first world war was started because everyone had all these arms.
vc604 we have accepted that reality
PREZ Ramtel: Yes, you are quite correct that time is of the essence in these tragic situations.
PREZ Magicmaker: The culture in the UK is quite different from ours in the USA.
PJ I think the police officers that have gone through the proper training can be armed!
vc604 thank you pj
magicmaker Prez: and isn't that sad but true.
Ramtel This also also about the quality of education not just arming police. In order to have a great learning enviroment, I believe feeling safe is essential
Ramtel Without safety, there is no education.
Jenn What about civies that have had the "proper training"? I carried a sidearm for over twenty years. Should I be allowed to carry on campus?
PREZ Magicmaker: Yes, it is unfortunate. During my time in England, it was common to speak of Chicago gangland shootouts constantly occurring in the US.
Dharma Having armed officers would give the impression that this is not a safe campus
magicmaker This is not about whether our police would have or do have the proper training. Our campus officers are quite diligent with that. But what does it say to our community that they NEED to be armed?
PJ Not at all, I would feel safer if our police officers carried weapons
PREZ Jenn: no "civies" allowed to do so.
vc604 for example
vc604 if a shooting were to take place on thius campus
Jenn I bet that I had more training than most of your officers...
vc604 the fall river pd would respond
PREZ Ramtel: You hit a key point, BCC must have an environment conducive to learning. That certainly includes SAFETY as well as other things like camous beautification.
vc604 we would not ask them to check their weapons at the main entrance
MCARBONARO gOOD mORNING
rsantos Type hereGood morning Sir. If Chief Wood believes that there is a need on campus, then I would strongly support him. He and his staff, many of whom are State Police Officers, are our first responders and are trained and certified. However, only those trained as State Police Officers should be allowed to carry firearms. BCC may have to hire additional qualified State Police Officers.
keepsafe The Campus Police Department do an excellent job keeping this College safe. They want to continue this trend. They work well with all the local authorities and will continue to do so.
Jenn I thought that BCC officers were "state police officers".
PREZ rsantos: Thank you for this observation. That is why we are holding this discussion.
Peace Since not everyone can join in this chat, would there be any sort of campus wide voting allowed to see how students and staff feel? I'm sure the union could arrange this for faculty. Student Life could monitor the student votes.
kburns I'm not sure how I feel about armed police officers on campus. I agree with Ron. The Chief is the expert. However, I was wondering how quickly FRPD would take to respond.
vc604 8-10 min
vc604 that is my exp. with their responce
PREZ KBURNS: I may be wrong, but I have in my mind that it would take 5-7 minutes for FRPD to respond.
Peace In a true emergency, once a person starts shooting, even an armed BCC police officer might not get to the site "on time."
Jenn Put a doughnut shop on campus, they'll get here quicker.
MCARBONARO I believe that only the trained officers should carry weapons.
Ramtel Unfortunately it is reality, If my daughter went to schol at BCC and their was an "active shooter" and the campus police did nothing because they couldnt, I would certainly question the college administration and what they did to protect my daughter.. Look at the criticism from Columbine due to the fact the officers established a perimeter and waited for the swat team to come, by that time all were now victims. Patreol officers are now expected/required to enter into these dangerous situations without waiting. Now if campus police were able to meet their expectations it could prevent the loss of life
kburns I think some colleges who have made the decision to arm their forces are in more rural situations where the local police would take longer to respond
BooBerry hello
Dharma takes the campus police sometimes 5 minutes just to get from one end of the campus to the other
vc604 not the case
vc604 kburns
vc604 the majority of the colleges in boston are armed
rsantos Are there not armed police officers in the public schools?
vc604 northeastern
vc604 harvard
vc604 mit
Ramtel Is BCC ready to make a step forward and prevent the loss of life, That is the question. BCC is a diverse community succeptable to gang activity with their current locations.
PREZ RSANTOS: Yes, FRPD officers are stationed in the schools.
magicmaker Boston is not fall river or new bedford or attleboro
Dharma This area is different than greater Boston
tvgirl their is at least one police officer in every public school in Fall River
Peace There is one police officer (with one gun) at each school. Not three or four.
PREZ RAMTEL: You have made the most important point. What should be the College p[olicy? Safety precautions (not "Guarantees") are our primary responsibility.
kburns President, how do you feel? And how does the chief and his officers feel?
keepsafe Keep in mind if there is any type of violent crime happening on Campus, what do you expect the Campus Police Officer's role should be? President Sbrega what do expect from your Police Department if this did happen?
magicmaker BCC is ready to step forward and prevent loss of life. But is arming our campus officers the right step? Maybe it could make things worse.
Dharma Prevention should be primary focus not response
Ramtel Magic how would that be?
cmessinger11 i think it is a good thing for the police officers to have guns becuase if something happened the police couldn't do anything what do you think about this president
MCARBONARO I don't believe Officer Wood even wants all police on campus to have a gun just highly trained officers.
kburns I wish prevention was the primary focus but I feel planning a response is paramount to school safety.
cmessinger11 how do the police officers feel about this
keepsafe Like I said earlier the Police are not the AGREESORS, they are the DEFENDERS
cmessinger11 so they want to have guns on campus
cmessinger11 what does the president of the school have to say about this matter
cmessinger11 for me i think we should have a vote about this matter
vc604 as a campus police officer i believe i should be equipped with the appropriate tools to carry out my job
MCARBONARO and you feel you cant with out a gun?
cmessinger11 i think that is so true if you have to be a campus police officer you shoul be able to have a gun only for emergencies
Jenn With all the crime on campus, maybe they should have tanks! http://ope.ed.gov/security/InstIdCrime.asp?CRITERIA=C
cmessinger11 i think any police officer should be able to carry a gun on the school property, but only for emergencies only that is my take on it.
MCARBONARO Have Campus police thought about at least stun guns
Dharma The campus have a very low crime statistic and does not justify being armed
Ramtel OK lets wait for something to happen
Ramtel Not a good idea Dharma
rsantos A gun to police is not a weapon but a tool. I can not think of any profession that prohibits their professionals from having all the equipment necessary to accomplish their work. To me having campus police unarmed is like not letting them have emergency medical equipment.
PREZ Jenn: Thanks for this link. I'll check it later. But why do you say "all the crime on campus"? Our monthly police reports demonstrate very little criminal incidents.
vc604 imagine being in uniform, with a patch that indicates you as a police officer, I am a target to anyone that intends on committing these crimes that have occurred in environment like bcc
keepsafe mcarbonaro; Do want them to do their job 100% or less? Right now if an emergency happens on campus what do you expect Campus Police to do? Where is there asafe area if an intruder does have a gun on campus?
staff Prez- Jenn was being sarcastic
Jenn That's what I'm saying, there is almost NO crime here.
Ramtel There was no crime on Northern Illinois campus, look what happen
SteveV They had armed officers at Virginia Tech, Deleware State and Northern Illinois, but that didn't stop those shootings
Ramtel There ws no crime in Columbine High School look what happen
Ramtel V tech etc.
magicmaker Armed police would not have prevented Northern Illinois
magicmaker and didn't
Ramtel Procative NOT Reactive
PREZ Jenn & Staff: Sorry, I'm losing my sense of humor. Perhaps we need more smiley faces (or frowns) in these comments.
vc604 magicmaker you are prob right
Dharma being armed is Reactive
Jenn If I remember correctly, there were a lot of clues that something might happen, but nobody bothered to follow up on them.
rsantos Armed police are proactive.
MCARBONARO I want them to do there Jobs, however I want them to be trained fully in weapons. Stun guns have been used by police officers as well.
vc604 but what happens when one of officers are faced with an armed suspect/active shooter
Dharma Being proactive means stopping the incident before it occurs without any violence
vc604 we cannot say it can never happen
nicole I agree with vc604, imagine a police officer on campus responding to an active shooter situation. he is easily identifiable as a target and does not have the safety equipment necessary to do his job, or defend himself.
vc604 i hope and pray it never happens
Jenn When Ray faced a potentially violent "mob" in G building, he didn't need a weapon...
kburns ???
MCARBONARO Campus police have a choice to wear vests
Ramtel So lets ask ourselves a question? Why is it that every day a campus police department is being armed, its because of an unfortunate growing trend of violence.
rsantos Sorry I don't wear a vest to class.
PREZ Jenn: What happened about the "Ray" incident?
kburns And who is Ray?
vc604 but we must prepared to respond to these situations if they were to occur
Jenn Ray was able to talk to them. He was one of the best officers here, until he retired.
vc604 this is a relatively quiet campus
vc604 so was VTECH
vc604 NO. ILL
keepsafe We all hope and pray it doesn't happen. So wear the vest and run right into danger and hopefully they don't shoot you in the face.
SteveV How many trained police are on the campus at any given time? If there was a gunman, would those few take them on by themselves or would they not wait for backup from the FR police?
vc604 and so many colleges where shooting occurred
Jenn There was a large group in G building, and he knew what to say. No guns, no nightsticks, no pepper spray...
keepsafe Times have change since Ray was here patrolling the Campus.
Ramtel Police Officers have families to
PREZ Please keep in mind that we also have a BCC THreat Assessment Team that is working diligently--and proactively--to forestall potential trouble spots. I don't think that Va Tech had such a Team in place at the time of that tragedy.
Jenn The officers have changed as well...
vc604 oddly enough stats show that it happens more often at campuses similar to ours
vc604 noty in the urban areas
Ramtel Campus Crime Statistics are not accurate because it lowers the admissions rate, lets be honest with ourselves
nicole Do you think the fact that people know that the officers are not armed poses a threat?
PREZ Steve V: I think at the most we have 3 officers on duty (including the Chief).
MCARBONARO Don't get me wrong as I have told Wayne I believe that campus police should have a weapon if not a gun and stun gun. However, I want the officers again to be fully trained in weapons.
Ramtel Of course if they carried weapons they would have the proepr training
Jenn Syun gun=yes, firearm=under lock and key!
vc604 our officer will NOT be trained to draw their weapons on a wim
Ramtel Look at your average citizen with their 2nd ammendment right, they can carry a gun without training, so why not police
Jenn Ramtel: Not on campus.
PREZ Ramtel: The Police report each month is based on hard data.
Ramtel Jenn thats a college rule, you think everyone follows rules
MCARBONARO Firearms arnt going to do much good, by the time they go get the weapon and return to where the problem is, it could be all over.
vc604 we can not base this decision on our crime stats
SteveV Would officers in Attleboro and New Bedford also carry weapons? Are there any there???
kburns Although I think its a wonderful opportunity for us to comment on this matter, I feel it should be up to the Campus police Department. The decision should be based upon their interpretation of statistics, trainings, etc.
PREZ Nicole: Your question is hard to quantify exactly, but it is at the core of our concern. Conversely, does arming our police deter crime?
MCARBONARO They have securty company
MCARBONARO not trained campus police
Dharma Good point, what would happen if the shooter were at New Bedford or Attleboro campus?
MCARBONARO Hide under a desk.
vc604 i believe an objective/independant panel should be formed to study this issue.
Peace How about voting?
Ramtel Thye have assesment teams that study a department and determine if they should or shouldbnt be armed VC604 I agree
Ramtel Let the professinal make decisions, nit the liberals
PREZ Dharma: The anser for Attleboro and New Bedford is the same as is currently the case in Fall River: We would call the local Police Dept.
staff Is the staff & faculty going to be trained on how to respond to an emergency situation?
Jenn Ramtel: Chapter 269: Section 10
MCARBONARO attleboro and new bedford have emerg. plans as fall river
MCARBONARO whoops you typed faster
Jenn (j) Whoever, not being a law enforcement officer, and notwithstanding any license obtained by him under the provisions of chapter one hundred and forty, carries on his person a firearm as hereinafter defined, loaded or unloaded or other dangerous weapon in any building or on the grounds of any elementary or secondary school, college or university without the written authorization of the board or officer in charge of such elementary or secondary school, college or university shall be punished by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars or by imprisonment for not more than one year, or both. For the purpose of this paragraph, ?firearm? shall mean any pistol, revolver, rifle or smoothbore arm from which a shot, bullet or pellet can be discharged by whatever means.
Dharma New Bedford and Attleboro currently don't have campus police officers on duty. So arming them would only affect Fall River campus and the satellites would not have the same protection
Ramtel Jenn lok at M.G.L. ch 90 sec.17
Ramtel Its Speeding, do you think everyone abides by the law
PREZ Jenn: Thank you for quoting our BCC policy. This will be widely publicized.
Jenn That's not the policy, that the law.
MCARBONARO Attleboro New Bedford have a securty officer on duty at the moment.
rsantos I want all of BCC employees to be well staffed, trained, and equipped. We don't need panels, or voting just a discussion and we are having it.
Jenn Ramtel: Chapter 90 is motor vehicles...
Peace Sorry, but 26 people in a chat is not inclusive.
PREZ RSantos: Thank you. We shall be having more discussions and forums on this important topic.
Dharma ::ninja
MCARBONARO Do all Campus police go through half the time as the State police officers do at the moment?
PREZ Dharma: I can't decipher your signage.
Dharma it was a smilie
vc604 the state police academy (for troopers) is the longest academy in mass
MCARBONARO I know that
MCARBONARO what I am saying campus does not go through it 100%
Dharma Campus officer go through the SSPO training
Cathy Campus police are real police officers. They do the same training as a patrolmen would
MCARBONARO I feel they should carry some kind of defense, however I would like to see that extra traing in the weapons area.
vc604 because we do not carry, nor does this college want the officers to dabble in chapter 90
PREZ MCARBONARO: Our BCC Police "candidates" go thru the full 15-week Academy BUT ours do not undergo the full program of weapons training. IF we were to arm our police, naturally they would undergo that full training--as well as continously being recertified.
vc604 otherwise we are trained as well, or better that municipal officers
Cathy Obvisouly they have training they are police officers. They are no different
MCARBONARO Why are some so against them having weapons if they will go through the training?
keepsafe Here are just a taste of what they go through at the academy. There cover Community policing/ Constitutional Law, Criminal Law, Ethics, Fire Safety, Gangs, Defensive Tactics, Domestic Violence, OC Spray, Patrol Procedures, Report writing, Physical Training and much more. They sacrifice being away from their familes for 15 to 16 weeks and only coming home on weekends. They are trined well and continue to learn more.
Cathy People think campus poilce are like sercurity gaurds
Dharma They may have the training, but they don't have the experience that a municiple officer has
PREZ Cathy: Yes, eactly. They do SOME weapons training at the Police Academy but not the full program.
Jenn Personally, I think they should have better training as "negotiaters", then they might not need to use firearms.
MCARBONARO I did not say or even hint that......Attleboro and New Bedford have security! that I did say.
Ramtel Dharma, when a municipal officer comes out of the acedemy, and a SSPo does, whats the experience different, nothing. Most officers in their careers rarely drwn there firearm
vc604 Jenn I'd love to sit down and chat with you about our training
keepsafe A firearm is always the last result. Hopefully their verbal skills will be enough.
MCARBONARO That is part of the extra weapon training Jen...
Cathy Correct, but the state feels that is enough training to patrol the streets where the real crime is at
Jenn I'm aware of the training...
Cathy so I feel the only thing they may need training on is college situations
Cathy I am for it
Ramtel Cathy, unfortunatley BCC does not have an imaginary fence protecting them from all crime, students, staff and faculty are real people
vc604 we are also trained in VERBAL JUDO. are you aware of verbal judo, Jen?
MCARBONARO The campus police deal with most the same crime as fall river police, from traffic to drugs.
Cathy Did i say they did Ramtel??
cmessinger11 i think it is good for poilce officers to have guns if they are going to use them the right way
Jenn I had trained in that as well.
Cathy I said if the state feels that their gun training is enough to patrol streets where crime happens alot more then I think it is sufficant enough for campus too
cmessinger11 how come we can not vote on this matter at the school
Cathy I am saying that because alot of people are discussing how they need more training
cmessinger11 how long has the police officers done their training
Cathy and the only training I see nessecary is maybe hostage situations or other campus situations
MCARBONARO depends on the town. some go through what state says some towns go further
cmessinger11 if it is such a big problem how come the state of mass has done nothing about this matter
vc604 Training is not the issue. It's mandatory. We reeceive our powers from the State Police COLONEL
vc604 Let's stick to the topic
Dharma If the main reason to arm officers is to handle shooter situations, then more than just firearm training will be necessary.
vc604 Should CPO be allowed to carry a firearm?
cmessinger11 i really have no problem with the campus poilce officers having guns if it keeps us safe at school
Cathy YES
Cathy well said cmessinger
vc604 to perform their duties as a Trained Police Officer
magnum Type here I think in todays society we probably have people on this campus carrying guns as we speak and the only proper way to defend ourselves would be to arm our campus police
MCARBONARO Either way this is up to Prez and others, he is kind enough to ask our opinions and thoughts.
staff i agree with magnum
PREZ Dharma: I think in addition to weapons training, our officers are trained in negotiating and other forms of non-violent resolutions.
MCARBONARO There are probably are people on campus who have arms you just dont see them..
cmessinger11 yes that is true let the prezident of the school deal with this matter
staff good point.. prez is kind enough to ask. he does care what everyone thinks.
Cathy President? Is this something that the CPO wanted or are interested in doing?
MCARBONARO sorry about that typo queen>
Cathy They are willing to do all this extra trianing? That is commendable
staff Does Wayne want CPO to carry guns?
Ramtel Whos Wayne?
Cathy The chief
PREZ Cathy: It is my understanding that our CPO is not yet unanimous (one way or the other). Some, of course, feel very strongly about this issue.
cmessinger11 what if we talk to the campus police officers and we tell them are concernes and likes about this matter this would be the smart way to do it.
staff Sorry Chief Wood.
Jenn Wayne doesn't even like us to carry knives. :-)
staff that's a good thing.
Cathy Thank you President
vc604 its against college policy for you to carry a knife Jenn!
nicole Jenn: who is "us"
cmessinger11 thankyou president for letting us get our feelings out about this matter
cmessinger11 i am leaving the chat room
Jenn vc604: There are a number of college policies that are routinely ignored.
Cathy O most definitly Jenn
vc604 true jenn
magnum I think you have to ask yourself if something like virginia tech were to happen here would you want to wait until fall river police to get here or would want our campus police to be able to respond before one more person was attacked
Ramtel Is UMass Dartmouth armed? If so, Is there crime rate higher than BCC?
Cathy GOOD QUESTION MAGNUM
Cathy and my answer is yes I would want our cpo to be able to handle the sitiuation early to save as many lives as they can
PREZ Ramtel: The U*MD police are armed, but your second question is really apples-vs-oranges since UMD has residence halls and is a 4-year school.
Dharma Most 4-yr schools are armed
MCARBONARO In brockton The community college, the police are armed there.
Ramtel Thank You Mr. President
magnum just because we are only a two year school that would not make a difference to a lunatic hell bent on revenge
PREZ Magnum & Cathy have really taken hold of the crux of the issue. We want our police at BCC to be fully prespared to deal with these terrible circumstances. Are they fully prepared with or without weapons?
Jenn BCC has always been a "commuter college", students just stick around long enough to get an education, not long enough to develop any real hatred toward each other.
magnum To answer your question prez i would say that they are not
concerned Cpo should be armed not only as a deterent, but as a mean to act if and when a situation does arrive. We have to remember that the cpo are trained police officers by the MA State Police. And with out weapons they are not fully prepared to handle terrible circumstances.
vc604 absolutely not true jenn
PREZ MCARBONARO: Yes, Massasoit CC is the only one of the 15 CCs with armed police. Their decision is about a decade old (prior to Va Tech).
Dharma I don't believe that arming them will make a difference. If a shooter is determined to cause havoc, then he will do so regardless if the officers are armed. The shooter would only take appropriate action to deal with armed officers
Jenn vc604: Please describe the last VIOLENT crime on campus.
staff doesn't brockton have a higher violent crime rate than fall river?
magnum but at least they could shoot back
concerned The armed officers could respond to the situation rather than being able to do nothing until fall river pd arrived
1234 i agree concerned
MCARBONARO It is also set in the middle of a very violent area>
1234 well the fall river area along with the surrounding communities are getting more violent everyday
1234 this is a community college, anyone can walk on this campus and cause havoc. we need to worry about that not just the students on the campus
concerned We are in Fall River, and we have students from all cities and areas. There are many students on this campus who are criminals
concerned if you think that students dont carry weapons here on a daily bais...look at the third graders who planned an attack on their teacher
staff i looked it up online. fall river's crime rate is actually HIGHER than brockton. its on mass.gov
1234 there was just a convicted rapist on the loose in this area, he could have been lurking in the BCC woods for all we now
vc604 Jenn:please, can you state for a fact that violent crime can not occur on this campus
magnum my last comment will be that i would feel a lot safer on this campus if our officers could respond with appropiate force if nessary
Jenn vc604: I can't state for a fact that bin Laden won't drop a nuke on D building either...
staff 1234- well its happened before.. there used to be a man living in the woods behind the pond.. and he would harass women when they walked over there
Ramtel Domestic Violence can be very dangerous, im sure BCC has domestic violence situations
Mo_Sowa If our campus police, who are professionals, are properly trained in firearms use and control, I think their carrying weapons allows for a better response time. If something were to happen, and the FRPD is called, they will come on campus carrying weapons but much later and much less effectively in terms of response times. The BCC PD are graduates of the Police Academy--they are not "rent a cops."
1234 absolutely correct MOSowa
vc604 Thanks Mo
MCARBONARO I have 6 sex offenders living with in 1 to 4 blocks, Drug dealers up the street in the blue house on one end and the white at the very end. doesnt mean I am going to go by a gun.
Ramtel Are you a police officer?
1234 well do you have all of them haning out on your porch, like G building deos????
Jenn How about this scenairo... Someone has a firearm. When this person sees an armed campus police officer, what do you think that they will do?
observer we do have a large number of community members on campus as well. even if we gave psychological exams to each student, that doesn't ensure a violent crime wouldn't take place. And it has already been stated that campus police ARE police officers, why shouldn't they carry a firearm once they've gone through the training the Prez mentioned.
Mo_Sowa I am a former naval office. The issue is not the weapons; the issue is proper training, psychological evaluations each year, etc
staff mcarbonaro- you don't have a gun because you feel safe knowing there are local police officers with them.
1234 do you know how much the tuition and fees with be raised if every student has a psychological assessment
staff jenn- they'd do the same thing whether or not the cp was armed
1234 it would be ridiculous
magnum how does the prez feel about this issue
MCARBONARO true I have seen the local police hanging with them.
MCARBONARO I believe he was talking about the officers
Jenn Not necessarily, if they know that the CPO is armed, they will shoot first. If they know that they CPOs aren't armed, there's a chance that they might be able to defuse the situation.
vc604 if there is mal intent to use the fire arm, he/she will attempt to shoot the officer first. EVEN IF THAT OFFICER IS NOT CARRYING A FIREARM. They wont ask me if i'm carrying. They will just shoot me to try to achieve their goal.
concerned good point vc
observer very true vc604
staff vc604- exactly they will see CP as a threat no matter hwat
MCARBONARO and psy exams doesnt always catch a problem if the person know what the test is looking for.
vc604 walk with mre on campus jenn.
Mo_Sowa The issue is not really "guns"--Have you noticed the use of Molotov cocktails in the recent couple of weeks to inflict harm on another person
concerned these are trained police officers, just like any other trained police officer
Dharma shootings happen at malls too, does that mean Mall Security should carry guns too
Mo_Sowa People who are bent on doing harm to another will do so with whatever weapons they can find....
Jenn Their "goal" isn't to attack the CPO, their "goal" is to attack whoever they came here for. If they wanted to attack a CPO, they just attack them first, before you even knew that they were there.
MCARBONARO I agree with VC.. criminal have more of a shoot first and dont care after.
1234 mall security arent POLICE OFFICERS
staff dharma- those are security guards!!!
Ramtel How many students does BCC have? How many faculty members?
keepsafe Any situation that the Campus Police must respond too has the potential to be violent. Even today I have mixed feeling about arming Campus Police. But I can tell all of you now this department is very professional and from all the Colleges I visited in my 11 years here, I can honestly state I would put my derpartment up against them all. We are professional and the issue is not to arm us tomoorrow, but to put a long term plan in place, which means a lot more training, more conversation and the bottom line is this. What can we do to make this an even safer atmoshere then it is today. Don't put limitations on this department. If something is happening on the second floor, we don't want to be on Elsbree Street with everyone else, we want to do more. Don't tie our hands. This issue needs more discussion then just an open chat.
Mo_Sowa Agree....
1234 absolutely
staff ramtel -i think we have about 5,000 students
1234 but i would trust anyone on your force to carry
Dharma I agree
keepsafe I forgot to sign off-- Wayne Wood
Jenn vc604: I've walked with the CPOs, and I've ridden with them. I also listen to your radio calls. There's no need to think of this campus as the "wild west"!
1234 no but there is nothing wrong with being prepared for a crisis
Jenn Maybe we should just arm everyone.
vc604 Jenn I dont this is the wild west.
observer i dont think vc is making BCC out to be the wild west.
MCARBONARO Again, I feel that the campus police should have a weapon for themselves and the campus public. ANd with the extra training campus police would be an asset.
1234 its not like the CPO's are going to be walking around with there guns in the air everyday
Dharma Jenn, if you rode with CPOs, then those CPOs are violating policies
Jenn I had permission...
vc604 we already have weapons by the way
keepsafe Not from me
vc604 oc spray, baton
Ramtel Jenn please state your reason for thinking campus police should not be armed. I would like to see an opposing pointof veiw..Thank You
PREZ 1234: Yes, this is critical. Are we doing all we can to prepare our entire BCC Family (not just the police) to act in emergencies? Not necessarily to resolve a situation, but to act appropriately (evacuate, lockdown, etc.).
1234 any tasers?
Jenn This was before you became chief.
magicmaker This chat is not for deciding...it is for raising issues. Obviously there is lots more discussion needed.
vc604 to my knowledge these weapons have never been drawn by an officer
vc604 Jenn I am not the Chief
vc604 I am not affraid to say I am Officer Vascoi Cordeiro Jr.
vc604 sorry mispelled my own name, Vasco
concerned emotions are running strong here
Dharma emotions and guns dont mix well
MCARBONARO Not at all
dbacon Type here
Jenn Ramtel: Weapons attract more weapons. Without a weapon, CPOs will use their brains... I carried a firearm for over 20 years and never had to draw it. That's because nobody knew that I was carrying it. Others that I worked with used theirs, but I never had to.
PREZ magicmaker: You are absolutely correct. We shall have more open opportunitiees to deal with this topic. I have an all-college meeting scheduled for this Thursday, April 17, in the Theatre, 2-4:00 p.m. Recall, too, that this discussion is part of the larger topic about civility and non-violence.
observer the officers on campus are not overly emotional, they are level headed
concerned all police officers have emotions, they're human beings. So are you saying no po should carry a gun?
keepsafe President Sbrega how does the Board of Trustees feel about this issue?
MCARBONARO observer you know each and every officer?
magnum we are all living in a much more violent world where what used to be setteled with fist now is setteled with knifes and guns why not allow our officers to respond accordinly
Ramtel Jenn, Weapons attract more weapons? can you please show me this statistic relative to policing?
MCARBONARO and who says the officer have to have the weapon on there hips maybe an around the ankle...
MCARBONARO out os sight.
MCARBONARO of
Jenn Ramtel: I only know from personal experience.
1234 people are acting like the CPO's are going to pull out there guns to direct traffic.......why cant you understand that it is for emergency purposes, for the students safety
vc604 thanks 1234
staff 1234 lol good point
Jenn If they're just for emergencies, ehy can't they be kept under lock and key in the office?
PREZ 1234: Thank you for this point--and thanks to Mo Sowa for emphasizing the training and 3education and conflict resolution dimensions to this "weapons" discussion.
staff becuase time is essential
1234 because most crisis require an officer to react with a quick response, not to run across campus find a key for a gun and run back to the scene where 30 people could already be dead
observer how is keeping them under lock and key better? if the officers are going to use them, then they should be on them. and again, rarely if ever will they ever draw them. some never.
MCARBONARO I hope that the CPO's get that extra training and are allowed to carry a weapon. ANd I do also hope that maybe Campus police can start to cover both the Attleboro and New Bedford as well instead of the security that is doing it now!!
MCARBONARO under lock and key would take to much time I feel..
MCARBONARO it would be like waiting for fallriver police to show
1234 absolutely
Jenn Observer: They would have to be released by their supervisor, and only under speciffic conditions.
keepsafe We need more Officers to do that MCARBONARO
1234 wouldnt make any sense to have them locked up
Ramtel BCC is a great school and community. I am an alumni I would like it to hold its reputation. The ultimate question is will it make BCC a safer place. If so then the College should decide.
Dharma I would only agree to it if they passed psych tests
MCARBONARO ANd that comes down to money which BCC doesnt have enough of>
staff dharma - did you mean CPO?
Dharma yes
dbacon stress tests, psych tests and excellent training
1234 i would think that 16 weeks at the academy is sufficient trainiing
MCARBONARO Psych test Dharma. dont catch thing especailly if the person who is taking it knows how to answer it.
PREZ MCARBONARO: You are right that these things cost money, but what is the cost of NOT conducting this training and all of the other preparedness plans?
MCARBONARO PREZ: Ohhh NO not that I am talking about adding campus police to Attleboror and New Bedford
PREZ Money is not the most important factor in this discussion.
MCARBONARO I realize that the traing will cost but if weapons are to be carried that is a must and the money would have to be found
PREZ Absolutely!! Thank you.
Ramtel I just read an aerticle where the Cheif of Fraamingham stated it would cost 24,000 to arm and train his 14 officers.
Ramtel Framingham State College
keepsafe I'm willing to discuss this issue with anyone in the future. Lets keep it professional and have the right goal in mind and that is to keep this Campus safe.
1234 thats about $1700 an officer, money well spent i think
Ramtel I agree, certainly cheaper than the cost of life
Ramtel http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/04/28/campus_police_renew_call_to_carry_arms/?page=1
MCARBONARO more than well spent..
observer correct keepsafe, that is the goal, and i hope that doesnt get lost in all this
1234 absolutely
PREZ EVERYONE: Time has expired on this particular chat, but, of course, we shall be continuing these important discussions.
MCARBONARO Good day ALL
1234 when is the next discussion?
Ramtel Thank you Mr. President
vc604 i appreciate the opportunity to have chatted about this very important subject. Thank Mr. Prez
observer thanks!
PREZ Please remember that this weapons discussion is part of the larger framework of creating a culture of civility & non-violence at BCC.
vc604 good bye jenn
BooBerry who's sticking around