| keepsafe |
As the President of this College what is your stance on arming the Police Force here? |
| Jean |
Absolutely the Campus police should have the right to bear fire arms. |
| Jenn |
So they can shoot themselfs in the foot? |
| PREZ |
Hi Everyone, We have a somewhat controversial issue as one of our topics today. |
| PREZ |
Should we arm our BCC Police? |
| Jenn |
I wouldn't trust them if you armed them with feather dusters! |
| PREZ |
Imagine (unfortunately) a Virginia Tech type of incident at BCC. Our BCC Police respond immediately and--do what? |
| Jenn |
With or without arms, they wouldn't know what to do. |
| PREZ |
Hi Jenn, have you had a bad experience with our BCC Police? |
| Guest |
Engaging in a shoot out would not help the situation |
| JEFFREY_YOUNG |
Officers must first be trained to respond to an Active Shooter Inccident |
| Jenn |
They just harass my friends, that's all. |
| annon |
I agree with Jeffrey and also question Jenn's negativity towards the BCC police. I have had very good experiences with them. |
| JEFFREY_YOUNG |
I have trained all my officers at Alabama State Univeristy to know how to react to that type of incident. Armed response is the only way to neutralize the situation. |
| Keepsafe |
If the officers are expected to do enforcement, they should be suitably equipped. Less lethal weapons are a must, but they should be prepared for the worst. |
| PREZ |
Jeffrey: Our BCC police are all graduates of the Police Academy which includes weapons training. Of course, they would all have to maintain their "currency" in being able to use weapons. |
| JEFFREY_YOUNG |
in an active shooter incident officers cannot contain and wait for a swat team. Swift action is neded to save lives. That was the flaw with the response at Columbine. |
| PREZ |
Keepsafe: Thank you. We are not talking ONLY about a sidearm gun. |
| Guest |
They would need more than just basic academy training, they would need tactical training |
| JEFFREY_YOUNG |
The first officers on the scene will need to form at least a two man team and enter the building. |
| Jenn |
Will BCC set up a cemetary for students that they kill by mistake? |
| JEFFREY_YOUNG |
Training is needed for the students, Faculty and staff on how to react to a shooting incident. |
| annon |
Jenn -- it sounds to me like you have a lot of growing up to do. I personally think that if you can't take the topic seriosly you should logout. |
| keepsafe |
Students on this campus will turn to Police in the event someone became violent. Police must be prepared for those who want to disturb the CIVILITY and safety of the campus. Plice are not Aggressors, but the Defenders. |
| Jenn |
If you can't take the negative comments, maybe you should do some growing up! |
| magicmaker |
It is not fair to attack someone with strong feelings...I believe she is taking the topic seriously. |
| Jenn |
Most of the campus cops I've delt with have been decent, then there have been the bad ones... |
| PREZ |
Jeffrey: Yes, the "training" for our full BCC community may takle the form of "information sessions" since it is difficult to predeict what exact circumstance we might encounter. The training of our Police, of course, goes without saying. It must occur on a continuous basis. |
| cc |
I do not think that campus police should carry guns. |
| staff |
i'd feel safer if they did have guns. |
| Jenn |
They should have weapons available on campus, but I don't think they chould carry them full time. |
| PREZ |
Keepsafe: Thank you for reminding us that this question of arming the Police falls within our larger context of building a climate of civility and non-violence/ |
| Guest |
Virginia Tech officers were already armed |
| staff |
thats an option also jenn. something to think about. |
| Jenn |
Since this is such a small campus, they could very easily obtain weapons if they need them. |
| JEFFREY_YOUNG |
There are several professional organization that cann come to your site and train your officers. What I did was train 8 of my supervisors as instructors and they then trained the rest of my department. |
| magicmaker |
What is the role of personal responsibility in a violent situation? Everyone in every situation, not just on campus, needs to think about what they would do if in an "active shooter" situation. The primary thing to do is get to a safe location. |
| PREZ |
Jenn: Thanks for that suggestion. Time MIGHT be a factor in this problem of immediacy. Is it a crucial delay to first go to check out a weapon before resdponding? |
| vc604 |
good morning room |
| tvgirl |
Type hereDon't the campus police already go through the state police training? |
| Jenn |
What about setting up a "refuge area" in each building? |
| BooBerry |
Jenn - that might work, but there are times that people might need to stay in the room they are in. |
| PREZ |
Hi TVGIRL, yes, our Police officers MUST be graduates of the State Police Academy. |
| vc604 |
the campus police offiers receive their training from the state police |
| tvgirl |
State Law i belive |
| tvgirl |
opps Believe |
| keepsafe |
Here are some statistics that might make paople think about this issue a little more. MACLEA which stand for Massachusetts Administration of Campus Law Enforcement Administrators have about 68 members. Out of the 68 members 30 are armed and 38 are unarmed. The trend is that more campuses are starting to arm their departments. |
| PREZ |
Keepsafe: Thank you for these statistics. As of now, only ONE of our 15 state Community Colleges have armed Police. But more (like BCC) are considering that option. |
| tvgirl |
Umass Amherst has a State Police on campus their are armed |
| Peace |
Good morning, |
| Jenn |
Yes, it would depend on the situation. I'm talking about having places available for people to stay protected in buildings other than the one under assault. |
| keepsafe |
That statistic will change soon. Two Community colleges will most likely be armed in some capacity before the end of 2008. |
| Peace |
I fear that if we allow campus police to have guns that it will invite others to carry arms. Are we not connected to the local police department? Would they not respond if we needed help? |
| vc604 |
we cant make our decision based on what others are doing. we need to do what is best for bcc, taking into account all the pros/cons. |
| PREZ |
Jenn: The point you raise touches on our OVERALL preparedness plan. What to do in certain situations (e.g., lockdown, evacuate, etc.). We are working on enhancing our communications at BCC such as a siren system, public address (internal & external), and cell phone text messaging. |
| vc604 |
i am a proponant |
| vc604 |
i beleive if you are called a police officer |
| vc604 |
you must have all the tools nec to do your job effectively |
| Jenn |
I know... But how many staff know what to do TODAY? |
| PREZ |
Peace: We have a clear policy that no one except "official" police officers (both on and off duty) can bring a weapon on campus. |
| Guest |
Staff would be the first ones to become aware of any situation and they should be trained to react to such situations |
| PREZ |
Even if a private citizen has a license to carry arms, s/he cannot bring a weapon on campus. |
| staff |
Peace- I don't think we should have to rely on local police. |
| Ramtel |
If I am correct after reveiwing the BCC Police Website, all campus police officers are trained through the Massachusetts State Police in a rigorious 16 week full time academy. |
| vc604 |
whos to say there aree no arms on campus now. i dont want to place fear on everyone, but you cant say folks arent carrying |
| Bonnie |
vc604....I believe the same thing. They should have them or what is the point of having a police officer. |
| PREZ |
Ramtel: Yes, you are correct. There is SOME weapons training at the Academy, but our officers would have to go intensive additional weapons traing on a continuous basis in order to carry arms. |
| Ramtel |
Look at instances like Columbine High School, Virgina Tech, Northearn Illinois University, all of the "Active Shooter" Scenarios they only alst 2 minutes, by the time local officials are called (FRPD) the situation would be over and statiscally speaking people would be deceased |
| magicmaker |
In England police officers do not carry weapons. They have a lower violent crime rate than we don. |
| keepsafe |
It's all about training. The Police here want to make sure everyone feels safe. If you put limiatations on thier ability to protect then everyone must understand what is expected from them. They want to protect but htye must have the resources to do so. |
| magicmaker |
don't carry guns, that is. |
| Bonnie |
Magic...we are not in England, it's not our reality |
| PJ |
What do you feel about tazer guns? |
| vc604 |
We have armed police officers at our middle scholls/high schools |
| magicmaker |
But it is like the old cold war. If one country armed itself, others got arms because they felt "safer." It accelerates arming, instead of solving problems. The first world war was started because everyone had all these arms. |
| vc604 |
we have accepted that reality |
| PREZ |
Ramtel: Yes, you are quite correct that time is of the essence in these tragic situations. |
| PREZ |
Magicmaker: The culture in the UK is quite different from ours in the USA. |
| PJ |
I think the police officers that have gone through the proper training can be armed! |
| vc604 |
thank you pj |
| magicmaker |
Prez: and isn't that sad but true. |
| Ramtel |
This also also about the quality of education not just arming police. In order to have a great learning enviroment, I believe feeling safe is essential |
| Ramtel |
Without safety, there is no education. |
| Jenn |
What about civies that have had the "proper training"? I carried a sidearm for over twenty years. Should I be allowed to carry on campus? |
| PREZ |
Magicmaker: Yes, it is unfortunate. During my time in England, it was common to speak of Chicago gangland shootouts constantly occurring in the US. |
| Dharma |
Having armed officers would give the impression that this is not a safe campus |
| magicmaker |
This is not about whether our police would have or do have the proper training. Our campus officers are quite diligent with that. But what does it say to our community that they NEED to be armed? |
| PJ |
Not at all, I would feel safer if our police officers carried weapons |
| PREZ |
Jenn: no "civies" allowed to do so. |
| vc604 |
for example |
| vc604 |
if a shooting were to take place on thius campus |
| Jenn |
I bet that I had more training than most of your officers... |
| vc604 |
the fall river pd would respond |
| PREZ |
Ramtel: You hit a key point, BCC must have an environment conducive to learning. That certainly includes SAFETY as well as other things like camous beautification. |
| vc604 |
we would not ask them to check their weapons at the main entrance |
| MCARBONARO |
gOOD mORNING |
| rsantos |
Type hereGood morning Sir. If Chief Wood believes that there is a need on campus, then I would strongly support him. He and his staff, many of whom are State Police Officers, are our first responders and are trained and certified. However, only those trained as State Police Officers should be allowed to carry firearms. BCC may have to hire additional qualified State Police Officers. |
| keepsafe |
The Campus Police Department do an excellent job keeping this College safe. They want to continue this trend. They work well with all the local authorities and will continue to do so. |
| Jenn |
I thought that BCC officers were "state police officers". |
| PREZ |
rsantos: Thank you for this observation. That is why we are holding this discussion. |
| Peace |
Since not everyone can join in this chat, would there be any sort of campus wide voting allowed to see how students and staff feel? I'm sure the union could arrange this for faculty. Student Life could monitor the student votes. |
| kburns |
I'm not sure how I feel about armed police officers on campus. I agree with Ron. The Chief is the expert. However, I was wondering how quickly FRPD would take to respond. |
| vc604 |
8-10 min |
| vc604 |
that is my exp. with their responce |
| PREZ |
KBURNS: I may be wrong, but I have in my mind that it would take 5-7 minutes for FRPD to respond. |
| Peace |
In a true emergency, once a person starts shooting, even an armed BCC police officer might not get to the site "on time." |
| Jenn |
Put a doughnut shop on campus, they'll get here quicker. |
| MCARBONARO |
I believe that only the trained officers should carry weapons. |
| Ramtel |
Unfortunately it is reality, If my daughter went to schol at BCC and their was an "active shooter" and the campus police did nothing because they couldnt, I would certainly question the college administration and what they did to protect my daughter.. Look at the criticism from Columbine due to the fact the officers established a perimeter and waited for the swat team to come, by that time all were now victims. Patreol officers are now expected/required to enter into these dangerous situations without waiting. Now if campus police were able to meet their expectations it could prevent the loss of life |
| kburns |
I think some colleges who have made the decision to arm their forces are in more rural situations where the local police would take longer to respond |
| BooBerry |
hello |
| Dharma |
takes the campus police sometimes 5 minutes just to get from one end of the campus to the other |
| vc604 |
not the case |
| vc604 |
kburns |
| vc604 |
the majority of the colleges in boston are armed |
| rsantos |
Are there not armed police officers in the public schools? |
| vc604 |
northeastern |
| vc604 |
harvard |
| vc604 |
mit |
| Ramtel |
Is BCC ready to make a step forward and prevent the loss of life, That is the question. BCC is a diverse community succeptable to gang activity with their current locations. |
| PREZ |
RSANTOS: Yes, FRPD officers are stationed in the schools. |
| magicmaker |
Boston is not fall river or new bedford or attleboro |
| Dharma |
This area is different than greater Boston |
| tvgirl |
their is at least one police officer in every public school in Fall River |
| Peace |
There is one police officer (with one gun) at each school. Not three or four. |
| PREZ |
RAMTEL: You have made the most important point. What should be the College p[olicy? Safety precautions (not "Guarantees") are our primary responsibility. |
| kburns |
President, how do you feel? And how does the chief and his officers feel? |
| keepsafe |
Keep in mind if there is any type of violent crime happening on Campus, what do you expect the Campus Police Officer's role should be? President Sbrega what do expect from your Police Department if this did happen? |
| magicmaker |
BCC is ready to step forward and prevent loss of life. But is arming our campus officers the right step? Maybe it could make things worse. |
| Dharma |
Prevention should be primary focus not response |
| Ramtel |
Magic how would that be? |
| cmessinger11 |
i think it is a good thing for the police officers to have guns becuase if something happened the police couldn't do anything what do you think about this president |
| MCARBONARO |
I don't believe Officer Wood even wants all police on campus to have a gun just highly trained officers. |
| kburns |
I wish prevention was the primary focus but I feel planning a response is paramount to school safety. |
| cmessinger11 |
how do the police officers feel about this |
| keepsafe |
Like I said earlier the Police are not the AGREESORS, they are the DEFENDERS |
| cmessinger11 |
so they want to have guns on campus |
| cmessinger11 |
what does the president of the school have to say about this matter |
| cmessinger11 |
for me i think we should have a vote about this matter |
| vc604 |
as a campus police officer i believe i should be equipped with the appropriate tools to carry out my job |
| MCARBONARO |
and you feel you cant with out a gun? |
| cmessinger11 |
i think that is so true if you have to be a campus police officer you shoul be able to have a gun only for emergencies |
| Jenn |
With all the crime on campus, maybe they should have tanks! http://ope.ed.gov/security/InstIdCrime.asp?CRITERIA=C |
| cmessinger11 |
i think any police officer should be able to carry a gun on the school property, but only for emergencies only that is my take on it. |
| MCARBONARO |
Have Campus police thought about at least stun guns |
| Dharma |
The campus have a very low crime statistic and does not justify being armed |
| Ramtel |
OK lets wait for something to happen |
| Ramtel |
Not a good idea Dharma |
| rsantos |
A gun to police is not a weapon but a tool. I can not think of any profession that prohibits their professionals from having all the equipment necessary to accomplish their work. To me having campus police unarmed is like not letting them have emergency medical equipment. |
| PREZ |
Jenn: Thanks for this link. I'll check it later. But why do you say "all the crime on campus"? Our monthly police reports demonstrate very little criminal incidents. |
| vc604 |
imagine being in uniform, with a patch that indicates you as a police officer, I am a target to anyone that intends on committing these crimes that have occurred in environment like bcc |
| keepsafe |
mcarbonaro; Do want them to do their job 100% or less? Right now if an emergency happens on campus what do you expect Campus Police to do? Where is there asafe area if an intruder does have a gun on campus? |
| staff |
Prez- Jenn was being sarcastic |
| Jenn |
That's what I'm saying, there is almost NO crime here. |
| Ramtel |
There was no crime on Northern Illinois campus, look what happen |
| SteveV |
They had armed officers at Virginia Tech, Deleware State and Northern Illinois, but that didn't stop those shootings |
| Ramtel |
There ws no crime in Columbine High School look what happen |
| Ramtel |
V tech etc. |
| magicmaker |
Armed police would not have prevented Northern Illinois |
| magicmaker |
and didn't |
| Ramtel |
Procative NOT Reactive |
| PREZ |
Jenn & Staff: Sorry, I'm losing my sense of humor. Perhaps we need more smiley faces (or frowns) in these comments. |
| vc604 |
magicmaker you are prob right |
| Dharma |
being armed is Reactive |
| Jenn |
If I remember correctly, there were a lot of clues that something might happen, but nobody bothered to follow up on them. |
| rsantos |
Armed police are proactive. |
| MCARBONARO |
I want them to do there Jobs, however I want them to be trained fully in weapons. Stun guns have been used by police officers as well. |
| vc604 |
but what happens when one of officers are faced with an armed suspect/active shooter |
| Dharma |
Being proactive means stopping the incident before it occurs without any violence |
| vc604 |
we cannot say it can never happen |
| nicole |
I agree with vc604, imagine a police officer on campus responding to an active shooter situation. he is easily identifiable as a target and does not have the safety equipment necessary to do his job, or defend himself. |
| vc604 |
i hope and pray it never happens |
| Jenn |
When Ray faced a potentially violent "mob" in G building, he didn't need a weapon... |
| kburns |
??? |
| MCARBONARO |
Campus police have a choice to wear vests |
| Ramtel |
So lets ask ourselves a question? Why is it that every day a campus police department is being armed, its because of an unfortunate growing trend of violence. |
| rsantos |
Sorry I don't wear a vest to class. |
| PREZ |
Jenn: What happened about the "Ray" incident? |
| kburns |
And who is Ray? |
| vc604 |
but we must prepared to respond to these situations if they were to occur |
| Jenn |
Ray was able to talk to them. He was one of the best officers here, until he retired. |
| vc604 |
this is a relatively quiet campus |
| vc604 |
so was VTECH |
| vc604 |
NO. ILL |
| keepsafe |
We all hope and pray it doesn't happen. So wear the vest and run right into danger and hopefully they don't shoot you in the face. |
| SteveV |
How many trained police are on the campus at any given time? If there was a gunman, would those few take them on by themselves or would they not wait for backup from the FR police? |
| vc604 |
and so many colleges where shooting occurred |
| Jenn |
There was a large group in G building, and he knew what to say. No guns, no nightsticks, no pepper spray... |
| keepsafe |
Times have change since Ray was here patrolling the Campus. |
| Ramtel |
Police Officers have families to |
| PREZ |
Please keep in mind that we also have a BCC THreat Assessment Team that is working diligently--and proactively--to forestall potential trouble spots. I don't think that Va Tech had such a Team in place at the time of that tragedy. |
| Jenn |
The officers have changed as well... |
| vc604 |
oddly enough stats show that it happens more often at campuses similar to ours |
| vc604 |
noty in the urban areas |
| Ramtel |
Campus Crime Statistics are not accurate because it lowers the admissions rate, lets be honest with ourselves |
| nicole |
Do you think the fact that people know that the officers are not armed poses a threat? |
| PREZ |
Steve V: I think at the most we have 3 officers on duty (including the Chief). |
| MCARBONARO |
Don't get me wrong as I have told Wayne I believe that campus police should have a weapon if not a gun and stun gun. However, I want the officers again to be fully trained in weapons. |
| Ramtel |
Of course if they carried weapons they would have the proepr training |
| Jenn |
Syun gun=yes, firearm=under lock and key! |
| vc604 |
our officer will NOT be trained to draw their weapons on a wim |
| Ramtel |
Look at your average citizen with their 2nd ammendment right, they can carry a gun without training, so why not police |
| Jenn |
Ramtel: Not on campus. |
| PREZ |
Ramtel: The Police report each month is based on hard data. |
| Ramtel |
Jenn thats a college rule, you think everyone follows rules |
| MCARBONARO |
Firearms arnt going to do much good, by the time they go get the weapon and return to where the problem is, it could be all over. |
| vc604 |
we can not base this decision on our crime stats |
| SteveV |
Would officers in Attleboro and New Bedford also carry weapons? Are there any there??? |
| kburns |
Although I think its a wonderful opportunity for us to comment on this matter, I feel it should be up to the Campus police Department. The decision should be based upon their interpretation of statistics, trainings, etc. |
| PREZ |
Nicole: Your question is hard to quantify exactly, but it is at the core of our concern. Conversely, does arming our police deter crime? |
| MCARBONARO |
They have securty company |
| MCARBONARO |
not trained campus police |
| Dharma |
Good point, what would happen if the shooter were at New Bedford or Attleboro campus? |
| MCARBONARO |
Hide under a desk. |
| vc604 |
i believe an objective/independant panel should be formed to study this issue. |
| Peace |
How about voting? |
| Ramtel |
Thye have assesment teams that study a department and determine if they should or shouldbnt be armed VC604 I agree |
| Ramtel |
Let the professinal make decisions, nit the liberals |
| PREZ |
Dharma: The anser for Attleboro and New Bedford is the same as is currently the case in Fall River: We would call the local Police Dept. |
| staff |
Is the staff & faculty going to be trained on how to respond to an emergency situation? |
| Jenn |
Ramtel: Chapter 269: Section 10 |
| MCARBONARO |
attleboro and new bedford have emerg. plans as fall river |
| MCARBONARO |
whoops you typed faster |
| Jenn |
(j) Whoever, not being a law enforcement officer, and notwithstanding any license obtained by him under the provisions of chapter one hundred and forty, carries on his person a firearm as hereinafter defined, loaded or unloaded or other dangerous weapon in any building or on the grounds of any elementary or secondary school, college or university without the written authorization of the board or officer in charge of such elementary or secondary school, college or university shall be punished by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars or by imprisonment for not more than one year, or both. For the purpose of this paragraph, ?firearm? shall mean any pistol, revolver, rifle or smoothbore arm from which a shot, bullet or pellet can be discharged by whatever means. |
| Dharma |
New Bedford and Attleboro currently don't have campus police officers on duty. So arming them would only affect Fall River campus and the satellites would not have the same protection |
| Ramtel |
Jenn lok at M.G.L. ch 90 sec.17 |
| Ramtel |
Its Speeding, do you think everyone abides by the law |
| PREZ |
Jenn: Thank you for quoting our BCC policy. This will be widely publicized. |
| Jenn |
That's not the policy, that the law. |
| MCARBONARO |
Attleboro New Bedford have a securty officer on duty at the moment. |
| rsantos |
I want all of BCC employees to be well staffed, trained, and equipped. We don't need panels, or voting just a discussion and we are having it. |
| Jenn |
Ramtel: Chapter 90 is motor vehicles... |
| Peace |
Sorry, but 26 people in a chat is not inclusive. |
| PREZ |
RSantos: Thank you. We shall be having more discussions and forums on this important topic. |
| Dharma |
::ninja |
| MCARBONARO |
Do all Campus police go through half the time as the State police officers do at the moment? |
| PREZ |
Dharma: I can't decipher your signage. |
| Dharma |
it was a smilie |
| vc604 |
the state police academy (for troopers) is the longest academy in mass |
| MCARBONARO |
I know that |
| MCARBONARO |
what I am saying campus does not go through it 100% |
| Dharma |
Campus officer go through the SSPO training |
| Cathy |
Campus police are real police officers. They do the same training as a patrolmen would |
| MCARBONARO |
I feel they should carry some kind of defense, however I would like to see that extra traing in the weapons area. |
| vc604 |
because we do not carry, nor does this college want the officers to dabble in chapter 90 |
| PREZ |
MCARBONARO: Our BCC Police "candidates" go thru the full 15-week Academy BUT ours do not undergo the full program of weapons training. IF we were to arm our police, naturally they would undergo that full training--as well as continously being recertified. |
| vc604 |
otherwise we are trained as well, or better that municipal officers |
| Cathy |
Obvisouly they have training they are police officers. They are no different |
| MCARBONARO |
Why are some so against them having weapons if they will go through the training? |
| keepsafe |
Here are just a taste of what they go through at the academy. There cover Community policing/ Constitutional Law, Criminal Law, Ethics, Fire Safety, Gangs, Defensive Tactics, Domestic Violence, OC Spray, Patrol Procedures, Report writing, Physical Training and much more. They sacrifice being away from their familes for 15 to 16 weeks and only coming home on weekends. They are trined well and continue to learn more. |
| Cathy |
People think campus poilce are like sercurity gaurds |
| Dharma |
They may have the training, but they don't have the experience that a municiple officer has |
| PREZ |
Cathy: Yes, eactly. They do SOME weapons training at the Police Academy but not the full program. |
| Jenn |
Personally, I think they should have better training as "negotiaters", then they might not need to use firearms. |
| MCARBONARO |
I did not say or even hint that......Attleboro and New Bedford have security! that I did say. |
| Ramtel |
Dharma, when a municipal officer comes out of the acedemy, and a SSPo does, whats the experience different, nothing. Most officers in their careers rarely drwn there firearm |
| vc604 |
Jenn I'd love to sit down and chat with you about our training |
| keepsafe |
A firearm is always the last result. Hopefully their verbal skills will be enough. |
| MCARBONARO |
That is part of the extra weapon training Jen... |
| Cathy |
Correct, but the state feels that is enough training to patrol the streets where the real crime is at |
| Jenn |
I'm aware of the training... |
| Cathy |
so I feel the only thing they may need training on is college situations |
| Cathy |
I am for it |
| Ramtel |
Cathy, unfortunatley BCC does not have an imaginary fence protecting them from all crime, students, staff and faculty are real people |
| vc604 |
we are also trained in VERBAL JUDO. are you aware of verbal judo, Jen? |
| MCARBONARO |
The campus police deal with most the same crime as fall river police, from traffic to drugs. |
| Cathy |
Did i say they did Ramtel?? |
| cmessinger11 |
i think it is good for poilce officers to have guns if they are going to use them the right way |
| Jenn |
I had trained in that as well. |
| Cathy |
I said if the state feels that their gun training is enough to patrol streets where crime happens alot more then I think it is sufficant enough for campus too |
| cmessinger11 |
how come we can not vote on this matter at the school |
| Cathy |
I am saying that because alot of people are discussing how they need more training |
| cmessinger11 |
how long has the police officers done their training |
| Cathy |
and the only training I see nessecary is maybe hostage situations or other campus situations |
| MCARBONARO |
depends on the town. some go through what state says some towns go further |
| cmessinger11 |
if it is such a big problem how come the state of mass has done nothing about this matter |
| vc604 |
Training is not the issue. It's mandatory. We reeceive our powers from the State Police COLONEL |
| vc604 |
Let's stick to the topic |
| Dharma |
If the main reason to arm officers is to handle shooter situations, then more than just firearm training will be necessary. |
| vc604 |
Should CPO be allowed to carry a firearm? |
| cmessinger11 |
i really have no problem with the campus poilce officers having guns if it keeps us safe at school |
| Cathy |
YES |
| Cathy |
well said cmessinger |
| vc604 |
to perform their duties as a Trained Police Officer |
| magnum |
Type here I think in todays society we probably have people on this campus carrying guns as we speak and the only proper way to defend ourselves would be to arm our campus police |
| MCARBONARO |
Either way this is up to Prez and others, he is kind enough to ask our opinions and thoughts. |
| staff |
i agree with magnum |
| PREZ |
Dharma: I think in addition to weapons training, our officers are trained in negotiating and other forms of non-violent resolutions. |
| MCARBONARO |
There are probably are people on campus who have arms you just dont see them.. |
| cmessinger11 |
yes that is true let the prezident of the school deal with this matter |
| staff |
good point.. prez is kind enough to ask. he does care what everyone thinks. |
| Cathy |
President? Is this something that the CPO wanted or are interested in doing? |
| MCARBONARO |
sorry about that typo queen> |
| Cathy |
They are willing to do all this extra trianing? That is commendable |
| staff |
Does Wayne want CPO to carry guns? |
| Ramtel |
Whos Wayne? |
| Cathy |
The chief |
| PREZ |
Cathy: It is my understanding that our CPO is not yet unanimous (one way or the other). Some, of course, feel very strongly about this issue. |
| cmessinger11 |
what if we talk to the campus police officers and we tell them are concernes and likes about this matter this would be the smart way to do it. |
| staff |
Sorry Chief Wood. |
| Jenn |
Wayne doesn't even like us to carry knives. :-) |
| staff |
that's a good thing. |
| Cathy |
Thank you President |
| vc604 |
its against college policy for you to carry a knife Jenn! |
| nicole |
Jenn: who is "us" |
| cmessinger11 |
thankyou president for letting us get our feelings out about this matter |
| cmessinger11 |
i am leaving the chat room |
| Jenn |
vc604: There are a number of college policies that are routinely ignored. |
| Cathy |
O most definitly Jenn |
| vc604 |
true jenn |
| magnum |
I think you have to ask yourself if something like virginia tech were to happen here would you want to wait until fall river police to get here or would want our campus police to be able to respond before one more person was attacked |
| Ramtel |
Is UMass Dartmouth armed? If so, Is there crime rate higher than BCC? |
| Cathy |
GOOD QUESTION MAGNUM |
| Cathy |
and my answer is yes I would want our cpo to be able to handle the sitiuation early to save as many lives as they can |
| PREZ |
Ramtel: The U*MD police are armed, but your second question is really apples-vs-oranges since UMD has residence halls and is a 4-year school. |
| Dharma |
Most 4-yr schools are armed |
| MCARBONARO |
In brockton The community college, the police are armed there. |
| Ramtel |
Thank You Mr. President |
| magnum |
just because we are only a two year school that would not make a difference to a lunatic hell bent on revenge |
| PREZ |
Magnum & Cathy have really taken hold of the crux of the issue. We want our police at BCC to be fully prespared to deal with these terrible circumstances. Are they fully prepared with or without weapons? |
| Jenn |
BCC has always been a "commuter college", students just stick around long enough to get an education, not long enough to develop any real hatred toward each other. |
| magnum |
To answer your question prez i would say that they are not |
| concerned |
Cpo should be armed not only as a deterent, but as a mean to act if and when a situation does arrive. We have to remember that the cpo are trained police officers by the MA State Police. And with out weapons they are not fully prepared to handle terrible circumstances. |
| vc604 |
absolutely not true jenn |
| PREZ |
MCARBONARO: Yes, Massasoit CC is the only one of the 15 CCs with armed police. Their decision is about a decade old (prior to Va Tech). |
| Dharma |
I don't believe that arming them will make a difference. If a shooter is determined to cause havoc, then he will do so regardless if the officers are armed. The shooter would only take appropriate action to deal with armed officers |
| Jenn |
vc604: Please describe the last VIOLENT crime on campus. |
| staff |
doesn't brockton have a higher violent crime rate than fall river? |
| magnum |
but at least they could shoot back |
| concerned |
The armed officers could respond to the situation rather than being able to do nothing until fall river pd arrived |
| 1234 |
i agree concerned |
| MCARBONARO |
It is also set in the middle of a very violent area> |
| 1234 |
well the fall river area along with the surrounding communities are getting more violent everyday |
| 1234 |
this is a community college, anyone can walk on this campus and cause havoc. we need to worry about that not just the students on the campus |
| concerned |
We are in Fall River, and we have students from all cities and areas. There are many students on this campus who are criminals |
| concerned |
if you think that students dont carry weapons here on a daily bais...look at the third graders who planned an attack on their teacher |
| staff |
i looked it up online. fall river's crime rate is actually HIGHER than brockton. its on mass.gov |
| 1234 |
there was just a convicted rapist on the loose in this area, he could have been lurking in the BCC woods for all we now |
| vc604 |
Jenn:please, can you state for a fact that violent crime can not occur on this campus |
| magnum |
my last comment will be that i would feel a lot safer on this campus if our officers could respond with appropiate force if nessary |
| Jenn |
vc604: I can't state for a fact that bin Laden won't drop a nuke on D building either... |
| staff |
1234- well its happened before.. there used to be a man living in the woods behind the pond.. and he would harass women when they walked over there |
| Ramtel |
Domestic Violence can be very dangerous, im sure BCC has domestic violence situations |
| Mo_Sowa |
If our campus police, who are professionals, are properly trained in firearms use and control, I think their carrying weapons allows for a better response time. If something were to happen, and the FRPD is called, they will come on campus carrying weapons but much later and much less effectively in terms of response times. The BCC PD are graduates of the Police Academy--they are not "rent a cops." |
| 1234 |
absolutely correct MOSowa |
| vc604 |
Thanks Mo |
| MCARBONARO |
I have 6 sex offenders living with in 1 to 4 blocks, Drug dealers up the street in the blue house on one end and the white at the very end. doesnt mean I am going to go by a gun. |
| Ramtel |
Are you a police officer? |
| 1234 |
well do you have all of them haning out on your porch, like G building deos???? |
| Jenn |
How about this scenairo... Someone has a firearm. When this person sees an armed campus police officer, what do you think that they will do? |
| observer |
we do have a large number of community members on campus as well. even if we gave psychological exams to each student, that doesn't ensure a violent crime wouldn't take place. And it has already been stated that campus police ARE police officers, why shouldn't they carry a firearm once they've gone through the training the Prez mentioned. |
| Mo_Sowa |
I am a former naval office. The issue is not the weapons; the issue is proper training, psychological evaluations each year, etc |
| staff |
mcarbonaro- you don't have a gun because you feel safe knowing there are local police officers with them. |
| 1234 |
do you know how much the tuition and fees with be raised if every student has a psychological assessment |
| staff |
jenn- they'd do the same thing whether or not the cp was armed |
| 1234 |
it would be ridiculous |
| magnum |
how does the prez feel about this issue |
| MCARBONARO |
true I have seen the local police hanging with them. |
| MCARBONARO |
I believe he was talking about the officers |
| Jenn |
Not necessarily, if they know that the CPO is armed, they will shoot first. If they know that they CPOs aren't armed, there's a chance that they might be able to defuse the situation. |
| vc604 |
if there is mal intent to use the fire arm, he/she will attempt to shoot the officer first. EVEN IF THAT OFFICER IS NOT CARRYING A FIREARM. They wont ask me if i'm carrying. They will just shoot me to try to achieve their goal. |
| concerned |
good point vc |
| observer |
very true vc604 |
| staff |
vc604- exactly they will see CP as a threat no matter hwat |
| MCARBONARO |
and psy exams doesnt always catch a problem if the person know what the test is looking for. |
| vc604 |
walk with mre on campus jenn. |
| Mo_Sowa |
The issue is not really "guns"--Have you noticed the use of Molotov cocktails in the recent couple of weeks to inflict harm on another person |
| concerned |
these are trained police officers, just like any other trained police officer |
| Dharma |
shootings happen at malls too, does that mean Mall Security should carry guns too |
| Mo_Sowa |
People who are bent on doing harm to another will do so with whatever weapons they can find.... |
| Jenn |
Their "goal" isn't to attack the CPO, their "goal" is to attack whoever they came here for. If they wanted to attack a CPO, they just attack them first, before you even knew that they were there. |
| MCARBONARO |
I agree with VC.. criminal have more of a shoot first and dont care after. |
| 1234 |
mall security arent POLICE OFFICERS |
| staff |
dharma- those are security guards!!! |
| Ramtel |
How many students does BCC have? How many faculty members? |
| keepsafe |
Any situation that the Campus Police must respond too has the potential to be violent. Even today I have mixed feeling about arming Campus Police. But I can tell all of you now this department is very professional and from all the Colleges I visited in my 11 years here, I can honestly state I would put my derpartment up against them all. We are professional and the issue is not to arm us tomoorrow, but to put a long term plan in place, which means a lot more training, more conversation and the bottom line is this. What can we do to make this an even safer atmoshere then it is today. Don't put limitations on this department. If something is happening on the second floor, we don't want to be on Elsbree Street with everyone else, we want to do more. Don't tie our hands. This issue needs more discussion then just an open chat. |
| Mo_Sowa |
Agree.... |
| 1234 |
absolutely |
| staff |
ramtel -i think we have about 5,000 students |
| 1234 |
but i would trust anyone on your force to carry |
| Dharma |
I agree |
| keepsafe |
I forgot to sign off-- Wayne Wood |
| Jenn |
vc604: I've walked with the CPOs, and I've ridden with them. I also listen to your radio calls. There's no need to think of this campus as the "wild west"! |
| 1234 |
no but there is nothing wrong with being prepared for a crisis |
| Jenn |
Maybe we should just arm everyone. |
| vc604 |
Jenn I dont this is the wild west. |
| observer |
i dont think vc is making BCC out to be the wild west. |
| MCARBONARO |
Again, I feel that the campus police should have a weapon for themselves and the campus public. ANd with the extra training campus police would be an asset. |
| 1234 |
its not like the CPO's are going to be walking around with there guns in the air everyday |
| Dharma |
Jenn, if you rode with CPOs, then those CPOs are violating policies |
| Jenn |
I had permission... |
| vc604 |
we already have weapons by the way |
| keepsafe |
Not from me |
| vc604 |
oc spray, baton |
| Ramtel |
Jenn please state your reason for thinking campus police should not be armed. I would like to see an opposing pointof veiw..Thank You |
| PREZ |
1234: Yes, this is critical. Are we doing all we can to prepare our entire BCC Family (not just the police) to act in emergencies? Not necessarily to resolve a situation, but to act appropriately (evacuate, lockdown, etc.). |
| 1234 |
any tasers? |
| Jenn |
This was before you became chief. |
| magicmaker |
This chat is not for deciding...it is for raising issues. Obviously there is lots more discussion needed. |
| vc604 |
to my knowledge these weapons have never been drawn by an officer |
| vc604 |
Jenn I am not the Chief |
| vc604 |
I am not affraid to say I am Officer Vascoi Cordeiro Jr. |
| vc604 |
sorry mispelled my own name, Vasco |
| concerned |
emotions are running strong here |
| Dharma |
emotions and guns dont mix well |
| MCARBONARO |
Not at all |
| dbacon |
Type here |
| Jenn |
Ramtel: Weapons attract more weapons. Without a weapon, CPOs will use their brains... I carried a firearm for over 20 years and never had to draw it. That's because nobody knew that I was carrying it. Others that I worked with used theirs, but I never had to. |
| PREZ |
magicmaker: You are absolutely correct. We shall have more open opportunitiees to deal with this topic. I have an all-college meeting scheduled for this Thursday, April 17, in the Theatre, 2-4:00 p.m. Recall, too, that this discussion is part of the larger topic about civility and non-violence. |
| observer |
the officers on campus are not overly emotional, they are level headed |
| concerned |
all police officers have emotions, they're human beings. So are you saying no po should carry a gun? |
| keepsafe |
President Sbrega how does the Board of Trustees feel about this issue? |
| MCARBONARO |
observer you know each and every officer? |
| magnum |
we are all living in a much more violent world where what used to be setteled with fist now is setteled with knifes and guns why not allow our officers to respond accordinly |
| Ramtel |
Jenn, Weapons attract more weapons? can you please show me this statistic relative to policing? |
| MCARBONARO |
and who says the officer have to have the weapon on there hips maybe an around the ankle... |
| MCARBONARO |
out os sight. |
| MCARBONARO |
of |
| Jenn |
Ramtel: I only know from personal experience. |
| 1234 |
people are acting like the CPO's are going to pull out there guns to direct traffic.......why cant you understand that it is for emergency purposes, for the students safety |
| vc604 |
thanks 1234 |
| staff |
1234 lol good point |
| Jenn |
If they're just for emergencies, ehy can't they be kept under lock and key in the office? |
| PREZ |
1234: Thank you for this point--and thanks to Mo Sowa for emphasizing the training and 3education and conflict resolution dimensions to this "weapons" discussion. |
| staff |
becuase time is essential |
| 1234 |
because most crisis require an officer to react with a quick response, not to run across campus find a key for a gun and run back to the scene where 30 people could already be dead |
| observer |
how is keeping them under lock and key better? if the officers are going to use them, then they should be on them. and again, rarely if ever will they ever draw them. some never. |
| MCARBONARO |
I hope that the CPO's get that extra training and are allowed to carry a weapon. ANd I do also hope that maybe Campus police can start to cover both the Attleboro and New Bedford as well instead of the security that is doing it now!! |
| MCARBONARO |
under lock and key would take to much time I feel.. |
| MCARBONARO |
it would be like waiting for fallriver police to show |
| 1234 |
absolutely |
| Jenn |
Observer: They would have to be released by their supervisor, and only under speciffic conditions. |
| keepsafe |
We need more Officers to do that MCARBONARO |
| 1234 |
wouldnt make any sense to have them locked up |
| Ramtel |
BCC is a great school and community. I am an alumni I would like it to hold its reputation. The ultimate question is will it make BCC a safer place. If so then the College should decide. |
| Dharma |
I would only agree to it if they passed psych tests |
| MCARBONARO |
ANd that comes down to money which BCC doesnt have enough of> |
| staff |
dharma - did you mean CPO? |
| Dharma |
yes |
| dbacon |
stress tests, psych tests and excellent training |
| 1234 |
i would think that 16 weeks at the academy is sufficient trainiing |
| MCARBONARO |
Psych test Dharma. dont catch thing especailly if the person who is taking it knows how to answer it. |
| PREZ |
MCARBONARO: You are right that these things cost money, but what is the cost of NOT conducting this training and all of the other preparedness plans? |
| MCARBONARO |
PREZ: Ohhh NO not that I am talking about adding campus police to Attleboror and New Bedford |
| PREZ |
Money is not the most important factor in this discussion. |
| MCARBONARO |
I realize that the traing will cost but if weapons are to be carried that is a must and the money would have to be found |
| PREZ |
Absolutely!! Thank you. |
| Ramtel |
I just read an aerticle where the Cheif of Fraamingham stated it would cost 24,000 to arm and train his 14 officers. |
| Ramtel |
Framingham State College |
| keepsafe |
I'm willing to discuss this issue with anyone in the future. Lets keep it professional and have the right goal in mind and that is to keep this Campus safe. |
| 1234 |
thats about $1700 an officer, money well spent i think |
| Ramtel |
I agree, certainly cheaper than the cost of life |
| Ramtel |
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/04/28/campus_police_renew_call_to_carry_arms/?page=1 |
| MCARBONARO |
more than well spent.. |
| observer |
correct keepsafe, that is the goal, and i hope that doesnt get lost in all this |
| 1234 |
absolutely |
| PREZ |
EVERYONE: Time has expired on this particular chat, but, of course, we shall be continuing these important discussions. |
| MCARBONARO |
Good day ALL |
| 1234 |
when is the next discussion? |
| Ramtel |
Thank you Mr. President |
| vc604 |
i appreciate the opportunity to have chatted about this very important subject. Thank Mr. Prez |
| observer |
thanks! |
| PREZ |
Please remember that this weapons discussion is part of the larger framework of creating a culture of civility & non-violence at BCC. |
| vc604 |
good bye jenn |
| BooBerry |
who's sticking around |
